DBMM 400pts Byzantine vs Hunnic

Dbmm 400pt game today vs Stephen (just for a change)

I used Maurikian Byzantine vs his Huns

Another superb game with the Byzantines actually coming close (I had great Pips but usual poor Combat dice).

Situation end of turn 2

400pts DBMM Minoans vs Hittites

400pt Dbmm game today vs Stephen

I used my Minoans vs his Hittite Empire

Great game with oppossing Chariots cmds both being broken.

Hittite Inf combo of PkF & WbF rolled over my lowly PkX/I to give Hitties an 18-7 win

Minoan Chariots arrayedHittite Chariots
Minoan right flank
Nasty Hittite Infantry

Strongbow Dbmm 200pts Sat 30th Aug 08

Foreign sojourn to Dublin with Dbmm 200pt Maurikian Byzantine army.

3 games played 3 lost but still managed to win a prize !!!!???? (a mistake sorted later with organizer).

3 good games each played in good spirit

1st vs Jan van Embden with Zanj Revolt army (not a good matchup for my Byz)
2nd vs Brian Roynane Ghaznavid (a good slog that was close at end)
3rd vs Phil Waldron Hindu indian (Desert Rajiputs)

In hindsight I made a lot of mistakes with rule recall (especially in 1st game) forgetting essential stuff like the back rank of my Dbe Cav counting against foot not just mounted and forgetting to count +1 is scoring less when shot at with all my S Mtd !!!

Only real 'learning' was that corner to corner is classed as contact and therefore allows 80p shift. Not how we have been playing it but does seem to be how its done.

Dbmm 200pt Game Turgesh vs T'ang

200pt Dbmm game today (as practice for Stronbow comp we have entered)

I used Central Asian Turks vs Stephen's T'Ang Chinese

A fun and quick game. Even at this reduced scale Dbmm has epic battle feel to it (so glad I did not enter the 400pt FOG comp).

Am going to use Maurikian Byzantine at Dublin

DBMM 400pts Sassanid vs Kushan

Dbmm game on 7th Aug 08 with Stephen

First Dbmm in awhile !

Fun game with usual outcome ie I lost drastically :0(

Dbmm still feels like a battle compared to FOG but certainly a more complex set

FOG 800pts Galatian vs Marian Roman

FOG game on 29th with Stephen

I used Galatians vs his Late Republican (Marian) Romans

A close fought fun game with Romans showing thier prowess vs other foot. Galatians suffered in Melee rounds as always down a POA (ie always needing 5's)

FOG 800pts Sassanid vs Elpthalite Hunnic

FOG game today with Stephen

Sassanids used again vs Hunnic type (with Indian subjects)

Much better game with more incident and fun factor

Still prefer Dbmm at heart but FOG definately an easier prospect

FOG 800pts Sassanid vs Late Roman

FOG game with Stephen

I used Sassanid vs his Late Romans

Fairly mundane, predictable draw.

Terrain awful for foot army (FOG pro-cavlary re terrain)

I still find FOG uninspiring in so many aspects

If only DBMM had more clarity.........................

BattleGroup PzGrenadier Scn

15mm WWII

Solo scn (Gavrus) with excellent BGPzGr rules (also played it with Overlord last week)

FOG 800pts Galatian vs Alexandrian Macedonian

FOG game today using my Galatians vs Stephens Macedonians

Good game with very few rules queries (FOG definately scores highly in this respect)

Galatian Foot slogged it out with Pikes and eventually were ground down.

If Celts dont win at Impact they are fighting disadvantage for all (most) ensuing Melee phase (ie 5s vs 4s) and will be ground down.

Elite Agema cavalry with a General in front rank fighting are mean re-rolling 1-3s !

FOG does not really have an equivalent to Warband or IrrA or Firece trrops of other sets.

Galatians seemed quite impotent/diluted compared to other sets, not sure if this is good or bad ??

FOG 800pts Early Bulgar vs Abbasid Arab

FOG game with Stephen

My Early Bulgars vs Abbasids

Game essentially hinged on my charging 4 BGs of Lancers into 3 units of Defensive Spear MF and losing awfully. Lancers not potent at all vs such foot as they lose Lance vs steady Spear who also get +POA for being steady. So Lancers who need to win Impact are at disadvantage only becoming equal in Melee.

Much different interaction than in DBMM wherein KnF can 'take on' SpO/I more readily. FOG much like 7th Ed

Still fun game with lots of action. Again the rules proved their strength of writing as all queries easily answered in rulebook (once you find relevant rule).

Still think Dbmm has more depth but at cost of more complication....................

FOG 800pts Sassanid Persian vs Dominate Roman

FOG game today vs Stephen

Using my Sassanid vs his Late Romans.

Sassanid

1 FC

2 TC

2 BG of 6 Armd/Supr HC Bow/Swd

2 BG of 4 Armd/Supr HC Bow/Swd

1 BG of 4 LH Unprot/Avg Bow

1 BG of 4 Cat HArmd Lance/Swd

1 BG of 6 LF Unprot/Abg Bow

1 BG of 6 MF Unprot/Avg Bow

1 BG of 6 MF Prot/Avg Lr Spr

1 BG of 8 MF Mob/Poor LtSpr

2 BG of 2 Elephants

Romans (estimated)

1 FC

2TC

4 BG of 4 Legionaries with 2 LF Bow

2 BG of 4 MF Auxulia with 2 LF Bow

1 BG of 4 Cataphracts

1 BG of 6 MF Archers

2 BG of 4 LH Jav

2 BG of 4 Cav Lt Spr

1 BG of 4 Slingers

1 BG of 6 LF Javelin

Persian gained initiative and used Developed terrain with a River on left flank. My compulsory village ended up on Roman left edge and all other terrain ended up in my half with a small GH near river and my left bunged with large Enclose Field, a Vineyard and a Plantation.

Romans deployed with Legions massed in centre flanked by Aux on left with Archers and slingers and Cataphracts to their right with a BG of LH providing support to rear. Roman right comprised 2 BG of Cav with a BG of LH and BG of LF archers.

Sassanid placed an ambush of LF archers in the enclosed field with Hillmen in plantation also in ambush.

The MF archers deployed in the enclosed field with Levy. The Clibanarii deployed centrally with Cataphracts and on Persian. To their left the 2 BG of elephants were arrayed with a BG of LH on the GH with BG of Clibinarii behind.

Initial moves saw the Romans advance all along the line and Persians essentially matching them.

On Persian left and exchange of missiles between the LH saw the Persians go fragmented without losses and then evade Roman charge (they played no further part in proceddings ) Persian Cav charged with a General into oppossing Cav with their general and several rounds on inconclusive fighting ensued (Romans lost a base and went disrupted but recovered) with Roman LH charging ineffectually into Persian flank.

The Elephants charged the oppossing Roman LF and narrowly missed hitting a BG of Cav in skirmish order. Next turn the Elephants charged again and caught the LF (Cav evaded) and routed them. Nothing further of note occurred on this flank.

On Persian right the Persian LF Archers gained upper hand vs the Roman MF archers causing a loss. The Hillmen emerged from ambush to chase off enemy slingers. The Persian MF Archers shot with no effect at the Aux bearing down on them. The Aux then charged into the field and after some initial resistance the Persian archers routed.

The key central combat saw generally poor shooting from the Persian mounted and the Romans passed any Cohesion tests with ease. Persian lancers failed a CMT to not charge and broke off Disrupted from 2 Legion BGs.

The Legions charged enmasse into the lines of Clibinarii and usual grind occurred with Romans gaining slight advantage. Major turning point was death (by double 6) of a Persian General in frontline combat ! the Cohesion tests caused by this saw one Persian BG go Fragmented and another rout. This rout then Fragmented another BG and wavered the Inf in the field. Subsequently the Persian centre collapsed as did the right wing and their arrition level (12) was equalled ending the game in Romans favour

A decent game and played to completion in about 4 hours including several of our usual discussions.

FOG is definately in our experience a less decisive game than DBMM and I still feel it lacks a lot of 'flavour' of ancient warfare as such. But it is definately a more balanced game and will I think be main competition set eventually.

Mounted Bow is not very potent generally and Sassanids had problems dealing with Armd Romans with supporting Psiloi. They can option to use skirmish and frustrate the HF but still no real punch and evading Sassanid HC does not really seem very historical ?

FOG is growing on me slightly as very playable but it does seem a tad bland overall.

FOG Romans vs Selecuids

800pt FOG game at UWS Sat 29/03/2008

Game vs Keith Branagh at UWS club (some 5+ years since I attended there !!)

My Romans comprised

1 FC

1 TC

1 TC Roman Ally

2 4 base Roman HCav

1 4 base Numidians

1 BG of Elephants

1 4 base Extraordinarii (Prot)

2 8 base Supr Legions

1 4 base Elite Triarii

3 4 base Velites

2 4 base Avg Legions (Allies)

1 2 base Supr Triarii (Aliies) a

nd compulsory Fort Camp giving 14 BGs

Keith used (I think I recall it all correctly)

1 FC

2 TC (might have had 3)

2 Elephant BGs

1 4 base Companions

1 4 base Cataphracts

4 8 base Pikes (3 Avg 1 Supr)

1 8 base MF Bow

1 8 Base LF Bow

1 6 base Thorakati

1 6 base Thracians with Hvy Wpn

1 BG of Scythed Chariots

giving him 12 BGs

Selecuids won Initative and we placed terrain. On my left was an OF and a small Plantation with a OF on base line on Keiths half was a SH on his left about mid table and couple of OF that had no bearing on events.

I deployed with Legions lining centre (Avg Allies on my left) with Velites to front.

My Elephants took left flank duty with Numidians further left.

My Cav shored up my right opposite the SH.

I placed the Extraordinarii in ambush in the plantation.

Keith deployed his Pikes enmasse opposite my Legions with his right having the nasty Companions & Cats and Elephants with LF support.

His right was anchored on the SH occupied by the Bowmen/Thorakati/Thracians. Both sides advanced all along the line with my Numidians evading from the Heavy Greek horse.

Usual inconclusive shooting from LF was prelude to the clash of Pike and Legions.

My elephants supporting Allied foot clashed with enemy Elephants and one Greek set of nellies were destroyed. However a 4 Base Legions BG was fragmented.

As this was occuring my Numidians bravely stood against charges by both heavy Greek Cav BGs with predictable result (ie auto-broken) this exposed the flank of my own Ele and the shaken (sorry fragmented Legion.

Too late I brought my Extraords from their leafy sojourn (they never made it to contact). A Unit of Velites was routed exposing the flank of my centre.

On my right I extended one Cav unit into Skirmish formation and the other went Disrupted from bow fire but I had a TC on hand to restore cphesion.

In the centre a mighty battle ensued as I charged into the Pike Phalanx (4 BGs each 2 wide 4 deep) with my Impact Legions.

I gained very narrow advantage over two turns of combat disrupting one Pike block and managing to inflict a couple of base losses. This advantage proved decisive versus 3 of the Pike blocks in the end (due to loss of POAs once steadiness is gone) as one routed and the others failed cohesion tests.

It was great to watch 3 blocks of Pike flee with their General desperately trying to restore some order (not sure Keith enjoyed the spectacle as much)

One Pike block stood firm however and broke its oppossing Legion.

This was combined with the Companions/Cats flanking my Elephants and a Legion and breaking them both ! Time to send in the Triarii.

I only had the 2 base BG on this flank but had the Ally TC on hand to fight in front rank.

But despite intial stand they too sucumbed and another Legion was hit in flank (a Supr 8 baser !) and it too fled. On the right things were pretty indecisive as my Cav could not take on the Inf on the SH.

However when the Pikes wavered Keith was forced to come off his hill and charged his MF Bow into an overlapping Legion file but it made no difference to fight.

Indeed this unit then was charged by Roman Cav and routed. I charged my other unit of Cav into both the Thorakati and the Thracians but no advantage was gained by either side and the Cav broke-off.

At this point I had suffered 14 attrition pts and so lost the game but it was a bloody and close run affair with Greeks losing 10 attrition pts.

Keith might remember things a bit differently but I think I got the essential actions in reasonable order ?

Comments : All in all a very enjoyable game.

Only real gripe I had with rules was how to physically measure wheels ontable as it all seems rather fiddly. We had a few rules queries but managed (eventually) to find relevant answers after lots of page flicking.

As another confirmed 'DBMM lover' I must confess that FOG is a decent set of rules written in generally clear style with great support for any queries that arise and a lot less headaches than Dbmm.

Movement (wheels aside) and Combat flows logically and smoothly (we had several multi unit combats all resolved without headaches).

Combat takes a bit of getting used to with its 'grinding' nature compared to more descisive/quick events of Dbmm but it certainly works as it 'says on the tin'.

Actually its all has a familar feel to those of us who played 6/7th........... We played a solid 4 hours with minimal delays for queries, FOG games are not quick.

My main dislike is the Cmd and Control rules (or lack thereof) vis DBMM and FOG still feels like a smaller scope of battle than Dbmm despite having a few more toys on table, FOGs 'top-down' view seems to hover a tad lower than Dbmm

Whilst I understand the mechanism/simplisticty of having Generals whizz about the place from point to point I would have preferred that they were more limited in who they can control, that said it is certainly fun/exciting using them in front rank combat (despite numerous rolls and with every Gen on the table fighting at some point we were lucky we did not lose any !).

I miss the inertia generated by the PIP system of Dbmm as FOG allows every BG to move every turn potentially and indeed the new Strategems.

At times FOG feels like line 'em up roll' em forward and chuck buckets of dice but I know that is down to lack of playing experience and tactical nounce on my part although I am not sure just what tactics are viable in FOG compared to Dbmm as match-ups are not as critical ?

As I said recently on Dbmm forum if I rate Dbmm as 9 out of 10 FOG is a close 8. I can happily play either but suspect that FOG will be the more popular choice for Comps but maybe not otherwise ?

Looking forward to trying Cavalry based armies next instead of HF slogging matches

FOG 800pt Game Punic Wars

First 'official' FOG game today using my Mid-Republican Romans vs Stephens Carthaginians

Much more enjoyable than beta game but still not that enthused by FOG

Slow moves, slow attritional nature of fights and lack of C&C compare unfavourably with more exciting and decisive Dbmm games.

But much better written rules with most queries answered in text (even if lots of toing and froing to find things)

Not 4 times better than Dbmm despite 4 times the cost.........................

Dbmm 400pts Polybian Roman vs Carthaginian

Dbmm 400pt game on Sat 1/3/08 at Stephens

Really excellent game with exciting Warband vs Blade battle in centre.
Very close game.

Another loss of course...................

Update

Several Dbmm games in last few months latest today

Late Roman (stephen) vs Sassanid

Hard fought with narrow win for Romans


Fuedal Spainish (Stephen) vs East Frankish

Spainish win

Maurikian Byzantine vs Tang Chinese (Stephen)

Tang Win

DBM3.1 400pt Game

DBM3.1 game using Eastern Frankish vs Hindu Indian

My Knights vs Elephants (not a great matchup) a close game fpr a long while but ultimately the Elephants got to grips and my Knights died in droves.

Used 3.1 for a change and overall they now pale compared to Dbmm.

Moves to slow and fiddly, and some awful stuff ref 1/2 base shifts to line-up and recoils causing death zones and HI unable to followup into contact with LHI.

On plus side the combat gradings/factors/outcomes are a lot easier than Dbmm but lack the decisive nature of newer set.

Still a decent set of rules and probably more balanced as a comp type set (ie more viable army types) but just not as much fun.

400pt DBMM Maurikian Byzantine vs Abbasid Arab

400pt game at Stephens using Maurikian Byzantine vs Abbasid Arabs

I used 3 Reg Cmds with a small Nomad Ally

CiCs Cmd had Cic plus 2 CvS Bukellaroi, 2 LhS 3 KnF Optimates and 2 Kavallorii double-based 'blocks'

One Sg had 4 Kavallori blocks & 4 LhS

Other Sg had 2 LhS 7 BdI backed by 7 PsO and 3 PsS

The Nomad commanded 5 LhO

a Baggage Cmd (Pip dump) of 6 Reg Bg F completed the 73 ME army

The Arabs comprised a train cmd (Pip dump) of 3 ArtI and 1 ArtS behind a wall of TF

3 other Cmds with Reg gens comprised IrrCvS some Reg CvS several LhO, SpI, SpO some PsO and 4 BwO with several Hd and 2 Bagg per Cmd.

Byzantines invaded and terrain was almost exclusively on Arab half with only a marsh on my rear edge. 3 GHs (1 on my left and one centrally) with a Bua and Orchard and a large SF all aided the Arabs. I had chosen a 1FE SF myself but it was unable to be placed.

The Arabs planted the Arty park on the central GH with TF in front (making it a virtually impregnable fort (Arty factors +3 for TF +1 Uphill +1 Train uphill !!). His Bow and Ps were in the SF flanked by Spear (partially also behind TF) and CvS. His right was as Cmd of LhO and to his left his Cic with 8 Irr CvS.

I deployed second and lined my Bd on my right angled at 45deg my other Sg lined up vs the SF with Cic to his left and my Ally to extreme left vs the enemy Lh.

DBMM 400pts Hunnic vs Late Roman

400pt Dbmm game using Hunnic vs Stephens Late Imperial Roman

I had 3 Irr Cmds

CIC CvS 2 CvS 15 LhS

SG CvS 1 CvS 15 LhS

SG CvS 11 LhS

Gepid Ally KnF 4 KnF

No Baggage

An Ambush and Feigned Flight strategem were paid for

The Romans had 3 Reg Cmds plus usual Baggage/Camp Pip Dump

1 Cmd had several Cataphracts with couple of Huns

A Cmd with Legionnaries backed by LI Bow and LH and 4 ArtF (I hate these sods !)

A Cmd with Bow and Aux (Lanciarii)

several Cav and LH interspersed

Huns invaded and had plenty of open terrain with only a small wood of any note

Romans managed to get a DH on their right and 2 RH on their left with no real room to circumvent them basically providing them with a terrain 'fort'

The Roman 'fort'

The Hun LH where therefore nullified as no real opportunity to outflank on or off table (I was loathe to use flank march after non-appearence in previous games)

As expected the Romans lined up between their hills with Inf on the hills.

Huns had little option but to line up opposite. I did place a 4 element ambush of Lh in my wood hoping to use the feigned flight to draw enemy on DH towards them (bit optimistic as wood fair distance from hill)

Huns advanced with Lh and Gepids. The Roman bolt-shooters on carts moved to their right immediately to face the Gepids. They fired several times at Geipds but thankfully no kills just several of recoils.

Battle was joined with several Hun Lh charging into Blade and being charged by KnX

Couple of Huns spent and 1 killed by KnX but nothing too drastic. But they lack power to deal with a wall of foot or mounted if they cant gain overlaps. The Gepids managed to charge in despite attentions of bolt-shooters and they had an overlap on the right flank of Legionary line. This was facilitated mainly by use of a feigned flight by my left Cmd forcing the Roman infantry to halt.

But.........isnt their always at least one.............the Gepids could not kill any Legionnaries !! this was true for a full 3 combats...................

Meanwhile I was taking some losses on my right from the Cataphracts so I decided to hurl my CiC with his accompanying Nobles (a 3 element line with Gen in middle) through my Lh into the Legions to try to punch a hole.

But................told you there is always at least one !............of course this failed with my Nobles recoiling leaving the Cic overlapped twice in Roman turn and.................wait for it................the loss of my CiC !!!!

True to form on my next Pip roll this Cmd rolled a tremendous 1 meaning I could not even halt anyone so my largest and central Cmd routed (at some speed being mainly Lh)

This of course meant doom for neighbouring Cmds (in fact game nearly finished their and then as the temporary 2ME morale hit almost broke my left Cmd !) as their flanks now exposed.

The Gepids had at last quick killed two Bd plus 2 Ps (this was to be total Roman losses for game !!!!)

but too late as they also lost a 2ME element and my left Cmd became broken next turn ending the game.

Despite yet another drubbing (25-0 this one) it was as ever a good game to play with the Gepid charge and my Cic charge being two events that could have easily gone my way against the Blade.

The feigned flight was interesting to use but needs a lot of careful planning and timely Pips. Still at 5pts and capable of being used 3 times its a useful stratagem.

The Roman Art F is potent with ability to move and also to 'gang up' on single target (I was lucky not to lose anything to their shooting). Blade with PsO in back rank are tough for mounted to defeat (even the Kn) usually even or better factors for Bd.

The terrain was major factor as the hills robbed me of flanks to target.

Hunnic array

DBMM 400pts Turgesh vs T'Ang Chinese

400pt game today with my Central Asian Turks (Turgesh) vs Stephens T'Ang Chinese

T'Ang invaded in spring and terrain consisted of 2 DH 3 GH 2 RH and 2 RF.

I used Su Lu a brilliant General with 2 CvS, 8 LhS, 6 PsO, 6 HdO, 6 BwI a CvO SG with 4 CvO 8 LhS a second SG with 2 CvO and 6 LhS, Army baggage comprised 6 BgF and a Sogdian AG with 4 KnF and 2 LhF and 2 BgF.

Su Lu bought an Ambush, a Flank Attack and Feigned Flight (ambush discarded). Sogdian sent on Flank Attack on left and smaller SG Cmd delayed to rear. Su Lu deployed on left with LH to front and Bow in RF with Ps on a RH to rear with Hd guarding the baggage. The other SG deployed in Centre and to Right with 2 groups (turned out to be a major mistake) on 4 Lh with 2 CvO behind.

T'Ang comprised a Reg Bag (Pip dump) cmd and 3 largish Cmds with lots of Reg CvS several KnX, BwX, LhF and subject LhS turk renegades 2 ArtO also appeared.

I went first as defender and rolled a 6 for Su Lu and a disasterous 1 for on-table SG (other 2 Cmds not appearing yet. The 1 was major bind as I had deployed the SG in 2 groups and could only halt/move 1 and had to watch 4 of my Impetuous LhS ride forward onto lower slope of a GH in staggered formation.

The oppossing T'ang Cmd rolled a 6 of course and marched CvS right into my LH with upslope advantage.

It was shape of things to come as T'ang consistantly rolled high Pips and my lot low.

After 2 turns my SG Cmd had lost 4 elements of LH and were being outflanked on table by oppossing Turkish LH. My delayed Cmd appeared on turn 3 but despite the Flank Attack my Sogdians remained off table (they had a nice open flank to appear on as well with T'ang Cv and BowX).

In centre it was initally a stalemate as my Lh screen managed to survive vs BwX, Art and Cv. But once the KnX got into contact I began to lose a few elements. By this time my right flank had become disheartened and then broke.

In centre I moved a group of 6 Bow out of RF to counter Cav threatening Su Lu but this proved another mistake as large Pips by T'ang allowed them to surround the bow and destroy them in 2 turns.

Things looked bad (as usual) as I had inflicted only minimal losses on T'ang. I then charged Su Lu into an T'ang General using a brilliant stroke to try to turn things around. But.....you guessed it............ he threw the inevitable 1 to enemy 6 and bounced ingloriously off !

Still no sign of Sogdians despite by this time only needing a 4 or better to appear.

They had not arrived by the time a lost several more Lh and a CvS element which broke Su Lus Cmd ending the contest.

Despite yet another loss it was as ever an enjoyable game. My Pips were frustratingly low each turn and the non-appearence of the sodding Sogdians was not that helpful to my cause...........

BwX are a pretty decent troop type.

The impetuous LhS are caught by Cav